Abstract
This research project examined three cases of successful independent educationally oriented podcasters. As the numbers of podcasts and podcast listeners grow in the United States, the stories of people who create content in this new educational space are an under-explored and important research area. This research profiles three successful independent podcasters who work in areas that can be considered, broadly, educational. The participants were selected for their diversity, and data were collected from interviews with the podcasters and a review of their podcasts and related documents. The narratives examine how and why successful independent educationally oriented podcasters started and continue their work. The findings indicate that their work is characterized by the desire to fill an under-served need, a persistent optimism, an enjoyment of their independence, and a sense of integrity.
Introduction
Today individuals can create educationally related podcasts and distribute them across the world with an inexpensive computer or a smartphone. Podcasting is simply the creation and distribution of audio files in a series, and podcasts are consumed in a variety of ways, such as computers, mobile devices, and smart speakers, typically without a cost. Some independent podcasters manage to build audiences and to sustain their productions without the support of a larger organization. Moreover, increasing numbers of people are learning from podcasts. According to Edison Research (2019a, p. 31), the most popular reason people give for listening to podcasts is “to learn new things.” This practice of learning new things from podcasts is becoming a feature of adult lifestyles in the United States, but there is a significant gap in the research on podcasting and out-of-school education.
This project examined three independent creators of this content. In this research, I looked at the reasons and ways three educationally oriented podcasters started and sustained their work. These podcasters did not have the support of a larger network or corporation, and they worked in fields that correlated with topics from adult education or personal development. I also developed criteria for success based on longevity and external impact, and applied them in the selection process. The primary source of data collection was open-ended interviews, which were supplemented by a review of the shows and related documents. The focus on three diverse participants allowed for in-depth interviews in this exploratory study. This research can shed light on the work of independent media creators and signpost trends in adult and informal education. The guiding research question is: How and why do successful independent educationally oriented podcasters begin and sustain their work?
This study explores three cases of diverse independent podcasters whose podcasts are educationally oriented. The podcasters who were studied are Maurice Cherry, an African American podcaster whose show, Revision Path, is about the work and careers of Black designers; Mur Lafferty, a White female whose show, I Should Be Writing, offers insights and advice on writing fiction; and Juleyka Lantigua-Williams, a Latina whose show, Latina to Latina, profiles successful Latinas for life and career advice. All work to change the lives of others by creating and sharing knowledge. In this research I provide a description of these people’s work as well describe recurring themes in their stories.
The study draws upon the theoretical lens of participatory culture and DIY media. Participatory culture is characterized by low barriers to broad expression and a belief by creators that this expression matters to others (Jenkins, 2006, 2014; Jenkins et al., 2009). One of the most salient features of the medium of podcasting is its accessibility for creators (Seale, 2019; Shamburg, 2010; Sterne et al., 2008). This DIY media is a fundamental part of the participatory culture landscape (Knobel and Lankshear, 2010). It is with this lens of participatory culture and DIY media that I looked at independent podcasters who are working in an educationally oriented field for adult audiences outside of formal education.
The unique properties of audio allure both podcasters and listeners. Podcasting can be considered what Marshall McLuhan (1964) would term a “cool media”; a podcast demands participation from the audience to fill in gaps of meaning. Through the narrow channel of sound, the podcaster puts ideas in the listener’s mind, and the listener gives life to these ideas. The podcaster and listener are using the free and abundant library of images, props, and sets drawn from the unconscious mind of the listener. There is also an intimacy of a voice from a podcast, comfortably close in one’s ear and usually heard when alone. Douglas (2004) attributed the fleeting nature of sound to its ability to heighten our concentration on the present moment. We are hardwired by evolution to respect that which we hear, but cannot confirm with our eyes.
Other affordances of podcasting contribute to its popularity. With free and inexpensive audio editing equipment (including some smartphone apps), practice, and a good ear, a novice can come close to the production quality of a professional in a number of genres. Many successful podcasts, both commercial and independent, have talk or interview formats that are technically simple to produce. Podcasters can enjoy freedom from the constraints of editors and publishers that are characteristic of other popular media (Berry, 2018). Meserko’s (2015) research points to the informality and dynamism of podcasts which liberate participants to express a more authentic self. These freedoms can stimulate creativity and produce more interesting and desirable entertainment. Moreover, listeners can get original content from both familiar and new providers on the same platform. They can get a show or series on demand and then play, pause, and rewind at will. One result is that listeners generally come intent on listening from the beginning to the end of a show, rather than use the audio as background, as with radio (Quirk, 2015).
Literature review
There is a gap in the literature for independent podcasters who work in educational-related fields. Markman (2012) surveyed 147 independent podcasters and developed a preliminary profile of podcasters as older, educated males who are motivated by an interest in the technology, an affinity for the topics, feedback from the audience, and the satisfaction filling a niche area (Markman, 2012). Markman and Sawyer (2014) conduced a follow-up survey of 137 independent podcasters and found that independent podcasters were motivated by several factors: communal feedback in an activity that they enjoy, opportunities for expression, aspirations to advance their careers or to become fulltime podcasters, satisfaction in connecting and promoting other people, and a passion for their topic. Millette (2011) produced a case study of independent podcasters in the Montreal podcasting community. The study looked directly at the work of independent podcasters as a unique group, one that responds to and subverts traditional audio broadcasting and commercial podcasting. Florini (2015) described the history and informal network of Black podcasters, known as the “Chitlin Circuit.” She described corporate media’s recalcitrance for Black podcasters and the supportive relationships among podcasters and listeners in this community.
There is no research on the work of independent podcasters whose work could be considered educational, but who are outside of formal educational systems. There have been many studies that examine the applications of podcasting in k-12 and higher education. Drew (2017) examined 35 educational podcasts that were outside of formal educational institutions in an analysis of common genres, though this research does not distinguish between commercial and independent podcasts. Drew categorized these works into three genres: “The Quick Burst,” “The Narrative,” and “The Chat Show.” An illuminating and detailed study by the Pew Research Center (Horrigan, 2016) titled Lifelong Learning and Technology does not mention “podcasts” or “podcasting” in its survey of technology for adult learners, but has repeated references to MOOCs, Khan Academy, and digital badges. The role of podcasting for informal and adult learning is understudied, and I hope this exploratory research fuels further research.
The experience that listeners have with podcasts, specifically podcasts that correlate to academic or personal growth themes, correlates with the ethos of informal and adult learning. Rogoff et al. (2016) noted that the common definition of informal learning is simply learning done outside of formal educational systems, though their work explores informal learning beyond this commonly accepted definition. In this research, I relied on this broad and common view of informal learning to give me the space to outline a wide landscape of podcasting’s potential reach, which may provide points of interest for other researchers. Adult, lifelong, and self-directed learning and education are closely associated with informal learning. Cyril Houle (1996, p. 41), one of the foundational theorists of adult and self-directed education, described adult education as: The process by which men and women (alone, in groups, or in institutional settings) seek to improve themselves or their society by increasing their skill, knowledge, or sensitiveness; or it is any process by which individuals, groups, or institutions try to help men and women improve in these ways.
The history of podcasting has been shaped by individuals and media organizations capitalizing on the affordances of the technology of the podcast. The technology of podcast distribution is based on a relatively short code, an RSS feed. RSS, which stands for Really Simple Syndication or Rich Site Summary, is a standardized way for a content provider to inform a user that new content is available. It is relatively simple to use and is not limited to a specific commercial platform. The type of RSS feed that distributes audio content was conceived in 2000 by David Winer at the request of TV personality Adam Curry (Bottomley, 2015; Curry, 2020). It was first used in 2001 in an “audio weblog” by Winer (Sterne et al., 2008; Winer, 2001). The actual term “podcast” was coined in 2004 by Ben Hammersley when he was describing new trends of amateur Internet radio that were enabled by the proliferation of consumer mp3 players.
Podcasting had initial popular excitement, receded from popular interest, then resurged in the public. In 2005 it was the New Oxford American Dictionary’s Word of the Year chosen for “phenomenal rapid growth in 2005” (Honan, 2005: para 4). However, interest waned in the ensuing years. Bottomley (2015) attributes the inability of podcasting to break into a mass medium from 2005 to 2014 to the competing interest in online video and difficulties in monetization. Podcasting experienced a renaissance around 2014; higher quality content, the popularity of the podcast Serial, the wide introduction of connective technologies like bluetooth in cars, and better revenue models contributed to this rapid growth (Roose, 2014; Stulberg, 2015). In 2018, Apple’s podcast platform had 525,000 active shows and content in over 100 languages (Locker, 2018). Edison Research (2019b: slide 48) estimated that 144 million people in the United States have listened to a podcast by 2019, that is 51% of the US population, up from 44% in 2018.
Despite the ease of production, the top podcasts are overwhelming produced by large media companies (Podtrac, 2019; Winn, 2019). A model at the beginning of podcasting was for the traditional broadcaster to co-opt podcasting to promote existing broadcast shows (Crofts et al., 2005). Moreover, large companies are becoming a greater presence in the podcasting landscape (Quah, 2017; Seale, 2019). Companies that already have an interest in audio such as Apple and Spotify are devoting more resources to podcasting (Seale, 2019). New podcasting business ventures are forming such as Luminary, a company with major funding whose stated ambition is to be the Netflix of audio (Barnes, 2019).
However, smaller independent podcasters have a growing variety of income sources that could sustain and encourage their growth. Bonini (2015) chronicled a shift in economics in podcasts that started in public radio when spinoff shows developed a variety of funding models such as crowdsourcing, subscriptions, and advertising. These funding models have spread within the podcasting ecosystem to smaller independent podcasters. There has been an acceptance by audiences to pay for monthly subscriptions for news and media (Jensen and Mortensen, 2016; Kammer et al., 2015). Independent podcasters and startup podcasting networks can get support from donations and subscriptions, in addition to advertising. Leading this trend is the company Patreon, though there are competitors in the field. Patreon (n.d.) describes its services as a “creative membership business” and claims to have over 100,000 users on its podcasting page. The crowdfunding site Kickstarter funds a variety of entrepreneurial projects, including podcasts. In July 2019, a search of Kickstarter listed over 1,500 podcast projects in search of funding. Podcast hosting services such as Anchor (https://anchor.fm/) and Podia (https://www.podia.com/) have their own integrated sponsorship features for independent podcasters. Overall, changing public habits and new technical options are giving independent podcasters new ways to generate revenue.
Podcasting is a vehicle for individuals to take their personal interests and to share them, to build on them, and to get known for doing them. Though comprehensive demographic data on podcasters does not exist, there does seem to be a lack of diversity among independent podcasters. Research on the demography of independent podcasters indicates the field dominated by educated, older, and technology-savvy men (Markman and Sawyer, 2014; Yang, 2010). Critics have noted this lack of diversity within all podcasts, not just the independent ones (Locke, 2015; Morgan, 2016). Locke (2015: para 6) pointed out that an exacerbating problem is the networking of podcasters within the podcast ecosystem, “when a white, male host recommends another podcast hosted by a white, male host to a white, male listener, there’s not much room for a diversity of voices.” There are exceptions; as noted previously, Florini (2015) described the network of independent Black podcasters who work to support each other. Also, there are intentional attempts to promote the podcasts of women. Articles from popular sites such as Marie Claire (Jones, 2019) and Forbes (Piazza, 2018) promote women podcasters. Similarly, sites such The Black Detour (Black Detour Team, 2018), Hip Latina (2019), and Black Enterprise (Fraser, 2018) will highlight podcasts by people of color. However, the editorial decisions to highlight these podcasts indicate a sense that there is a demographic imbalance in the field.
Method
This exploratory research project focused on case studies of three different successful independent educationally oriented podcasters. The qualitative case study method follows the procedures and spirit of Merriam (1998). The participants were purposely sampled for their diversity to increase the breath of information about the population. To find the participants, I developed specific criteria for educationally oriented independent podcasters who were successful. Educationally oriented shows were ones with topics that were consonant with popular topics in adult education, e.g. personal development, health, career, language, history, philosophy, cooking, and writing. An independent podcaster is a person or group that creates and manages a podcast without the support or affiliation of a large network or corporation. I operationalized “successful” by the podcast’s consistency and reach. The podcast had to be in existence for at least one year and still be in production, had to have at least 50 episodes that were released on a consistent basis, and at least 100 reviews on iTunes with a better than 4- out of 5-star average review. Next, I looked within this group for external impact; they had to have recurrent, independent, and supportive media (e.g., a recommendation from a magazine, a social media community, and participation in events related to their podcasts). Finally, the success needed to be centered on the podcast. The show needed to have developed as a podcast, and not as a supplement to a larger venture, such as an online business or video series. I found an initial set of 58 podcasts that fit the criteria of independent, successful, and educationally orientated by using various search techniques. These were limited to English-speaking podcasts, and the initial set contained podcasters from the United States, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, and New Zealand.
The goal was to find three participants diverse in ethnicity, race, gender, and subject. Chein (1981) compared the purpose of the sample in qualitative research to the selection of experts to consult on a perplexing medical case; the goal is not to get the average opinion of the entire medical profession, but to leverage their specific backgrounds and experiences of the chosen consultants. In this spirit, I wanted to get divergent perspectives on the experience of being a successful, independent, educationally oriented podcaster. Though all of the participants were from the United States, their topics and perspectives offered a great degree of diversity.
I collected data from multiple sources for each podcaster: interviews with the podcasters, the shows themselves, and material from and about the shows. The podcasters participated in semi-structured interviews of 16 questions lasting about an hour as well as follow-up emails.
Because of the public nature of podcasts and the detailed nature of case studies, masking identifying information would be difficult and counterproductive. Participants are identified in this work, and the process has a strong element of co-construction. Each participant had they opportunity to review the profiles for accuracy, and the final draft was an agreement between the participant and myself. If either the participant or I insisted on content that the other was opposed to, that work would not have been used in the study. There were no major changes requested in the narratives by the participants, and there were no participants with whom there were irreconcilable differences. This process was done to give a rich, thick description of their work, since their identities would have been easily discoverable even with pseudonyms. There was an ethical balance of which I was keenly aware: to avoid harming participants with inaccurate information and to be asked to remove accurate but unflattering information, which would dilute the credibility of the research. I also recognized that participants would tend to present themselves in the best light during an interview, though the final narratives ring with a sense of credibility and candor. Though my goal was an accurate description and analysis, my interpretive stance could be characterized as one of deeply curious admiration for their work and success.
The interviews were the primary source of data, and coding began immediately. Each transcript was repeatedly read and coded. Because of the broadness of the research question, I used coding procedures from grounded theory for the interviews, specifically the system of open, axial, and selective coding of Corbin and Strauss (2015). The supporting media was used to supplement and triangulate the interview data. I then constructed narratives for each podcaster and a description of the common themes. The style of the narratives is influenced by the method of portraiture (Lawrence-Lightfoot, 2016; Lawrence-Lightfoot and Hoffman Davis, 1997). The narratives serve as an attempt to merge the empirical with the artistic, capture a complexity of experience, honor the work of these individuals, and to broaden the audience of the research.
Findings
Maurice Cherry – Revision path
Maurice Cherry started his podcast on a suggestion–to record an interview on his phone that he was planning to write. Five years later Revision Path was the first podcast included in the Smithsonian’s National Museum of African American History and Culture (Locker, 2019). Revision Path is a weekly podcast about an hour long in which Maurice interviews “the best Black graphic designers, web designers, and web developers from all over the world.” There is a strong emphasis on the ways Black designers negotiate the opportunities, setbacks, and serendipity of their professional lives.
The seemingly casual decision to record an interview was a turning point for a passion that Maurice had been following for years. Maurice is a digital designer who conceived of the show in 2006 when he was producing The Black Weblog Awards. He conceived of Revision Path to highlight the accomplishments of Black designers because “they were not getting any sort of recognition for their work at all, especially compared to their nonblack peers.” However, the demands of work, graduate school, and running the awards did not give him the time to pursue it in 2006, but the idea stayed in his head.
Revision Path was launched on the web in 2013 as long-form text interviews, not as a podcast. One of the initial interviewees suggested an audio recording. Maurice recorded the interview on his phone and was impressed by how easy it was. For the next few months he gave his guests the option of audio or text, and both formats were put on the web site. In March of 2014 he had 15 audio interviews, and launched the podcast Revision Path, “It was the one-year anniversary of starting Revision Path, and I was like, ‘Oh, now we're a podcast'.”
Since 2014 Maurice has refined a system for recording. Today, he has moved from recording from his phone to a sophisticated home recording setup. Most of his interviews are done by Skype, and he uses a professional microphone on a boom with an additional filter device and an interface system to improve the sound quality. He does this in what he calls “Studio B” in his home. He will record his interviews in advance, sometimes months in advance, and release them weekly, which allows him flexibility in his schedule. After he records them he sends the raw file to a professional audio editor to add the intro and outro, to do other edits, and to create a transcript.
Revision Path is owned and produced by Maurice, but it is now licensed by the design company that Maurice works for, Glitch Media. Before the licensing agreement, Maurice generated income from his podcast in several ways. He had subscriptions through Patreon, direct sponsorship by corporations, and revenue from a job board related to the podcast. Some of his job board accounts were Facebook, Google, The New York Times, Mail Chimp, and American University. These were companies looking to diversify their hiring pool through show’s focus on Black graphic professionals.
Maurice is vigilant about protecting the integrity of his show and the focus on Black designers and creatives. This was difficult at first. When he began the podcast, he unsuccessfully tried to partner with other design podcasts. Most did no return his messages, and many said that they had no interest in the topic of race. Now, the interview participants come to Maurice in different ways. Some ask to be on; some are referred to him; and some are pursued by Maurice. As the show became more popular, more people would request to be on. Many, according to Maurice, are not a good fit. The selection of the show’s guests is a function of his focus on Black designers. Maurice described it this way: Revision Path, for what it's worth, has never been a top-100 type of a show. It just hasn't been. Part of the reason that, honestly, it is a niche kind of show. It's about design and technology, more so design than technology, so it's already kind of a niche thing. People try to put it into a certain bubble and say “Oh, it's a show about, you know, African-Americans and Silicon Valley.” No it's not.
Maurice sees a smaller audience as a necessity of a focused show and seems comforted by not having mainstream appeal. Growing his audience is something that Maurice says he does not ever think about: “People end up finding the show when they're ready for it.”
Nevertheless, the show has achieved critical and even historical success. I discovered it when I was searching for outstanding Black podcasts, and initially saw it on Feedspot’s (2019) list of “Top 25 Black Audio Podcasts & Radio You Must Subscribe & Listen to in 2019.” It won the “Most Inspiring Design Podcast” in the 2015 Creative Market Awards (Creative Market, 2015). Maurice was featured in LifeHacker’s “How I Work” series (Douglas, 2018). Moreover, Revision Path was the first podcast selected for inclusion in Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture (Locker, 2019).
Juleyka Lantigua-Williams – Latina to Latina
From the beginning Juleyka Lantigua-Williams treated her podcast network, Lantigua Williams & Co., as a business. She is the co-owner and executive producer of Latina to Latina. She is driven by her mission to share the stories of successful Latinas with her audience, and she sees this podcast as the launch pad for a broader offering of shows. Latina to Latina is a weekly interview show that was launched in 2018. It tells the stories of successful Latinas and is hosted by co-owner and broadcast journalist Alicia Menendez, who also anchors a show on MSNBC, a leading cable news network in the United States. The weekly interviews feature Latinas who are successful entrepreneurs, writers, activists, and politicians. Recent guests include San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulín Cruz and United Nation General Assembly President María Fernanda Espinosa Garcés.
Before podcasting, Lantigua-Williams worked for 18 years in the media business, and her last job was as the lead producer and editor of National Public Radio’s Code Switch, covering the intersection of race and other major facets of society today. After Code Switch, she began to do consulting work in audio production. She was hired in 2018 as a consultant by Bustle, a women-oriented media company, to help with their podcast Latina to Latina. Latina to Latin was developed for Alicia Menendez, then a contributing editor at Bustle and an established star in broadcast journalism. Lantigua-Williams and Alicia immediately connected; however, Bustle discontinued the show after seven episodes. Lantigua-Williams and Alicia decided to buy it and started a separate company, Latina to Latina LLC. Lantigua-Williams produces two other original podcasts—70 Million, a show focused on criminal justice reform in the United States, and Feeling My Flo, a show about menstruation. All three shows have different production and financial arrangements. Her network also produces branded podcasts for clients.
Lantigua-Williams is committed to a professional-quality product and the work it entails. All of the interviews for Latina to Latina are done in person in a professional recording studio, with a team of people, including an audio producer and a sound engineer. “To produce a show like Latina to Latina is a lot of work. It is hundreds of steps. It is editing and drafting and scripting and recording and re-tracking. It is being in a studio,” Lantigua-Williams says.
She believes that the face-to-face interviews bring out more from the guests. The intimacy of the recording booth allows Alicia and the guest to go deep into the story of the guest’s life. Lantigua-Williams also believes that the quality of the recording from a studio creates a significantly better listener experience and gives the show a distinction among other interview podcasts.
However, the cost of this production is not offset by the show’s profits. The show does generate income from Patreon subscriptions; merchandise such as coffee mugs, stickers, and canvas pouches; host-read advertisements, and an in-app promotion with Pandora, but not enough to cover production costs. However, Lantigua-Williams takes a long view of income. The fact that Latinos will be the dominant economic power in the US in the next two decades is also an inspiration. I want to have built a huge audience by the time that happens, and they will have grown with my company. We’re two years old—we’re babies. But, in 20 years when we have hopefully amassed a much larger audience, and we have a much broader offering of shows, we will be positioned in a way that says, “Yeah, they, they get us and they’ve been getting us. They’ve been serving us since way back.”
What keeps Lantigua-Williams going is a sense of service—providing ideas and inspiration to an under-served audience in ways that speak to them. She’s proud of sharing the journeys of successful Latinas with other Latinas: “We hear the stories from the beginning, and it just changes your ability to think about what’s possible.” She cherishes the fact that Latina to Latina has become part of listeners’ lives and that the show is an entry point to podcasting for many in her audience.
Though Lantigua-Williams has a background in print and digital journalism, she sees podcasting as a “new creative language.” An important feature of which is a reduction of editorial and bureaucratic constraints. I am able to say, “Well, I think this is a good idea … Let me go do some research and see if anyone else is doing this idea. Let me see what people who know this area are saying.” So, it's a matter of you testing your concept—whether or not there’s an audience for it—versus having to deal with a hierarchy and a bureaucracy and essentially going through the layers of permission.
The show has a strong social media presence on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. The team replies to virtually all of the social engagements and mines them for demographic information. One goal of analyzing this information is to balance the topics and guests on the show to reflect the variety of Latinas’ experiences in the United States. To boost the audience the show also participated in in-kind cross promotions with other podcasts, which did increase subscriptions.
As an independent podcaster, Lantigua-Williams is in a unique position professionally. She’s made the decision to commit resources to the production value of the show and has a mission to strengthen the show as a growing force for Latina voices in the United States. She takes a long view, and her podcasting is an essential part of her professional and personal life: “I want to be around for 20 years. I want to evolve as the industry evolves. This is my last job, I just want to grow this job … I want the job to get bigger.”
Mur Lafferty – I should be writing
In 2005 Mur Lafferty began her podcast about writing—years before she became a professional writer. She started her podcast “to talk about my attempts to start to build a writing career.” Over the next 14 years, she published six books and short fiction pieces, and her podcast has grown with her publications. She is also a Hugo Award Winner, the co-editor of Escape Pod, a show that narrates short science fiction stories, and the co-host of Ditch Diggers, a show that focuses on the business aspects of writing.
Mur’s show is an act of support for struggling writers. She said if she had to rewrite the show’s name now, it would be Don’t Quit, Little Writer—It’s Not That Bad. The show today comes out each weekday, and each show is about 8–12 minutes long. Mur records using a handheld digital recorder, sometimes recording her thoughts as she gets her miles in during a daily walk. One interesting show was her September 5 2019 podcast when she was determined to get her show done, though it was late at night and hurricane Dorian was approaching her North Carolina home. The whipping wind made parts of her show on the topic of “revisioner’s block” inaudible. While some of the words were lost during that show, her commitment to her daily practice was clear. Her show is typically focused on topics like “first paragraphs,” “crippling fear,” and “must you write daily?” The ideas come from audience questions, current events in publishing, and issues with her own writing.
Mur’s podcast has developed as her life has changed and her career has grown. Back in 2005 Mur saw a need: “No one was talking to the noobs from a noob’s point of view.” Mur focused on interviews when she began: I realized I went to enough science fiction conventions, that I could have access to a lot of authors to interview them, number one, and number two, it’s not that hard to get interviews because people love to talk about themselves. This was a revelation to me.
Nowadays she is a successful expert who mentors other writers with her show. One of her proudest moments is hearing about listeners’ successes as writers. She is also proud of addressing stigmas of mental health and creativity by sharing the story of her depression with her listeners.
Her podcast audience has helped her career significantly. The contract for her first book was from an editor who knew her from listening to her show. Mur attributes book sales to the show as well, “It’s all been building my network, building my listeners, my fans. People started listening to my stuff via podcast and then they started buying.”
She makes money on the podcast, mainly through Patreon. Her expenses are low, as she uses a handheld recorder and edits on her desktop computer—mainly adding the intro and outro. She made money from advertising for a while when her hosting company Libsyn offered money to insert relevant advertisements. Her fans contacted her wanting to support the podcast, so she made a deal with her audience that if they reached a certain threshold of donations, she would stop advertising. She first set up a PayPal donation option, but then switched to Patreon when it became available. She offers a scale of premiums based on the level of support, and noticed that most people do not care about the specific premiums, except for the online discussion group. People who subscribe at five dollars or above per month get access to an online community using the app Discord. It is an active community with discussions about books, writing, conventions, and writing challenges.
Mur’s approach not only connects to her writing career and her desire to help others, but also to her own personal growth. On podcasting, she says: If you’re someone who’s shy or not really good at standing up for yourself like I am, podcasting gives you a little way to interact with people and maybe influence people without having to stand on the stage and be Tony Robbins.
In their origin stories, all three podcasters had a disposition of being open to possibilities—a persistent optimism. Maurice and Mur had a protean and almost improvisational start. They both supplied a combination of flexibility and understated determination in their beginnings. Mur began seemingly a whimsical experiment with a new medium to talk to novice writers from a novice’s perspective. The show changed as she grew as a writer, but she continued and even developed other related podcasts. Maurice’s podcast morphed from an idea, to a blog, to an optional recording, to a podcast. He is now the first podcaster enshrined in the Smithsonian Institute’s National Museum of African American History and Culture. The origin of Lantigua-Williams’ podcast was much more intentional, purchasing the rights to a show that a corporation had discontinued. However, the career and financial risk associated with this move is a corollary to Mur and Maurice’s origins. She was open to and embraced the possibilities of her show.
Each podcaster also enjoyed their independence. Maurice was so intent on the integrity of his show that he seemed to eschew new listeners. Lantigua-Williams’, who had spent years in a career in traditional media, relished the creative and editorial freedom of podcasting. Mur enjoyed pursing topics that came up in her daily life as well as those, such as mental health, that had a personal resonance for her. She also enjoyed the freedom of recording her shows during her daily walks.
Related to this sense of independence, each podcaster received deep personal satisfaction from doing their work: developing their content, sharing it, hearing back from audience members, and planning more podcasts. They each believed they were making a difference in the world; a difference that had palpable and human consequences. This was a major motivating factor for all three of the podcasters.
Besides the motivation of the podcaster, a show’s sustainability is dependent on resources. Typically, podcasting is characterized by relatively inexpensive production costs. However, Lantigua-Williams’ show is an exception to that rule. She insists on a professional production process and face-to-face interviews, which get costly. Both Maurice and Mur have made notable revenues from their shows: Maurice through licensing and sponsorship, Mur through subscriber donations on Patreon. It is enough money for them to feel that their time is worth spending on the show. Lantigua-Williams success can be seen through the lens of her long-term business plan, which connects to the growing population and influence of Latinas. Not surprisingly, Lantigua-Williams has a focus on audience growth, while Mur and Maurice seem content with a steady, consistent group.
There was one overarching theme that ran through and among their work: integrity. Thematically, the concepts of “mission,” “fidelity,” “consistency,” and “principled” recurred in the coding. A sense of integrity motivated their production decisions, the relationships to their audiences, and the selection of topics–although the specific details and choices for these podcasters were diverse and occasionally antithetical.
One of the most salient differences among the podcasts was the different types of production and the varying perspectives on production value; yet these choices were a function of their missions. Lantigua-Williams insists on a studio-produced show, meticulous preparation, and a team of professionals: a costly enterprise. She has a background in broadcasting, a vision of expanding Latina to Latina, and a belief that this quality matters to her audience. Mur, conversely, records daily from a handheld recorder with little planning. She does this to honor the commitment to her audience and to herself to get a show out every weekday. It is the “lowest barrier to entry” she can find. Maurice optimized his home studio for Skype interviews. This facilitates his ability to get a full roster of appropriate and compelling guests from around the country.
All of these podcasters demonstrate integrity in their commitments to their audiences. Lantigua-Williams surveys her audience twice a year and mines email and social media for insights into their needs and interests. She strives to address the variety of the US Latina experience. Mur has a keen sense of responsibility for the service she provides her audience of working and aspirational writers. She eliminated advertisements on I Should Be Writing when her audience hit her goal for Patreon donations. This liberated her from having to grow her audience and “worry about the numbers.” She can focus her attention on the audience that supports her. Similarly, Maurice does not worry about building his listeners, as he sees that effort threatening the focus on his current audience. Despite the diverse topics, schedules, and formats, all of these successful independent podcasters honor a compact that they believe they have with their listeners.
All shows also evidence integrity in the development of their content. Maurice prides himself on being “strict and judicious” about the designers he has on the show and welcomes being a “niche.” He values the prospect that Revision Path “has never been a top-100 type of a show.” With Latina to Latina, Lantigua-Williams tells the stories that she wants to tell. She feels she can do this by capitalizing on the freedom of podcasting, a medium without the constraints of corporate oversight. She knows there are stories about Latinas that have been neglected from mainstream conversations and is moved by the gratitude and loyalty of her audience. Mur’s podcast conveys the discipline that writers need and addresses the loneliness that writers can feel. Her daily, intimate chats bring people into her life, offer insights into her struggles, and provide a recurring and reassuring voice.
Implications for future researchers and practitioners
This research correlates and extends existing research on podcasters’ motivations. These podcasters are all motivated by a passion for their topics, a desire to help others, and a calling to address an underserved area. This analysis correlates to Markman and Sawyer’s (2014) work. However, when looking at the focus of Maurice Cherry and Juleyka Lantigua-Williams on underserved populations, an important social justice dimension emerges. The association of underserved markets with the “long tail” in podcasting (Markman, 2012; Markman and Sawyer, 2014) and in produsage (Bruns, 2008) does not quite convey this distinction. The desire to share the stories of Black creatives or successful Latinas seems bigger than a niche market connoted by the long tail. Examining the podcasting experience among and people of color and women—as audiences and creators—is an important direction for future research.
Though the detailed study of three different podcasters has limited generalizability to the broader population, this research does offer insights to nonprofessional podcasters. Practitioners can glean some lessons from this research. The variety of conventional production value that each podcaster applied in their podcast can liberate podcasters from a sense that there is one right way to produce a podcast. Content, mission, and fidelity to one’s audience are more important than audio quality. Indeed, it is this fidelity to a personal vision that seems critical to sustainability. All of these podcasters did this by following a passion in a niche or underserved market. Furthermore, for each of the podcasters’ monetization came in a variety of forms, including listener sponsorship, licensing, advertising, merchandise, and related job boards for associated occupations. Podcasters should explore these areas and be receptive to novel ones as well. One can also see the way a podcast is used as an initial step in a larger business plan.
Future research studies could look at the effects on learners and position podcasting in terms of an alternative to traditional adult and higher education systems. A fertile and significant area for research is how people learn from podcasts. The subjects and styles of this educational content is another interesting direction; questions about how these topics correlate, extend, or subvert the substance and style of formal education would be a fascinating direction in which to go.
Footnotes
Declaration of Conflicting Interests
The author(s) declared no potential conflicts of interest with respect to the research, authorship, and/or publication of this article.
Funding
The author(s) received no financial support for the research, authorship, and/or publication of this article.
